From: Claudia Slate
To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #35, 14-Jan-89
Subject: Re: Lilith
In response to your request for information on
Lilith, I looked her up in "The Woman's Encyclopedia ofMyths and Secrets"
by Barbara Walker and published by Harper and Row. (1983). This book was
strongly recommended to me by a Dallas parapsychology teacher, (male at
that), who felt I might enjoy and benefit from this study of sexism, which
is dealt with in the book from both historical and mythical viewpoints.
I found this information, which I have paraphrased for the most part.
Lilith, (also know as Lilit), was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to
assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish
mythology. to the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady".
Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of mating
with animals, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old
Testament declared it a sin. Moslems were insistent on the male-superior
sexual position and apparently Lilith was not Moslem, disagreed with Adam
and flew away to the Red Sea.
God sent angels to bring Lilith back, but she refused to return. She
supposedly spent her time mating with "demons" and gave birth to "a hundred
children a day". (Busy woman!) So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more
docile replacement. Lilith became the "Great Mother" of settled tribes who
resisted invasions of nomadic herdsmen represented by Adam. Early Hebrews
disliked the Great Mother who is said to have drank the blood of Abel after
he was slain by Cain.
Lilith's Red Sea was another version of Kali Ma's Ocean of Blood, which
gave birth to all things. There may have been a connection between Lilith
and the Etuscan divinity Leinth, who had no face and who waited at the gate
of the underworld along with Eita and Persipnei, (Hades and Persephone) to
receive the souls of the dead. The underworld gate was a yoni and a lily,
which had no face. Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as
a sexual union. The lily or lilu, (lotus) was the Great Mother's flower -
yoni, whose title formed Lilith's name.
The story of Lilith disappeared from the Bible, but her daughters, the
lilim, haunted men for over a thousand years. The lilim were thought
responsible for nocturnal emissions and the Jews still made amulets to keep
away the lilim well into the Middle Ages. Greeks adopted the lilim and
called them, Lamiae, Empusae, or Daughters of Hecate. Christians also
adopted them and called them harlots of hell or succubae. They believed
that Lilith laughed every time a Christian man has a wet dream. The
Daughters of Lilith were supposedly very beautiful and presumed to be so
expert at lovemaking that after an experience with one, a man couldn't be
content with a mere mortal woman.
From: Zhahai Stewart
To: Claudia Slate Msg #83, 20-Jan-89
Subject: Re: Lilith
Thanks for the information about Lillith. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite
answer my questions about Lillith, which are not so much what the myth or
legend is, as how was it propagated down thru history to us?
A while ago, someone here suggested that Lillith was expunged from the
Christian Bible. Others, more knowledgeable about that than I, gave
reasons that that was unlikely as a Christian era event, without
postulating a monumental conspiracy. OK, if Lillith is at least as old as
the bible, how did the myth or legend get propogated? Was there lost
ancient written material? Or was it propagated orally for many generations
even after some or many of the books of the old testament were written
down? Or did it arise later?
As for the lovemaking of the daughters of Lillith, sounds kinda fun.
(Maybe we should ask David Rice about that?) Do the sons of Pan spoil
mortal women as well? :-)
Barbara Walker's Encyclopedia is interesting, but seldom gives very
thorough sources. It is apparently worth keeping that grain of salt on
I just got her Tarot cards & book; pretty powerful images, I thought. I
haven't tried a reading with them yet.
Thanks for the info!
* Origin: Adelante - 300 meters above Boulder, CO (Opus 1:104/93)
From: Tony Iannotti
To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #116, 24-Jan-89
Subject: Re: Lilith
As I understand it, Lilith is said to be as old as the bible, because
she is mentioned in the Mishna, a form of commentary on the Pentateuch.
Whether she was ever in what is now canonical, i.e. Genesis per se, is hard
to prove or disprove. The Mishna was an oral tradition for much longer. She
has been identified with Ishtar in much the same ce" way as Mercury to
Thoth to Wotan. I don't think there is a literal or philological
* Origin: OPERA DEII = BaphoNet-by-the-Sea (718)499-9277 (Opus 1:107/293)
From: Antony Landsman
To: Zhahai Stewart Msg #122, 10-Jan-88
Subject: Re: Lilith
> Have you any insight as to where the Lillith myth
> originates? For example, what are the oldest documents
> that mention Lillith? If indeed Lillith goes back at least
> as far as the beginnings of the old testament, was that
> myth carried verbally even while the rest of the Adam & Eve
> show was written? Or did Lillith originate later?
Lillith is mentioned in an esoteric Jewish text called the Midrash.
It is a compilation of mystical interpretations surrounding the Torah (old
Testament). It was handed down orally along with the rest of the Talmud
and was written down in the middle ages when the Rabbis thought that these
teachings might be forgotten.
Apparently Lillith was created at the same time as Adam (see the
initial reference to the creation of man "Man and Woman" he created them)
but somehow disappeared from the scene due to her rebelious nature.
I think that she was probably the primary Goddess in the region prior
to the advent and revolution of the Jehovah followers. I also tend to
believe that Innana was one of her descendants.
--- QuickBBS v2.03
* Origin: Canyonlands BBS, Moab Utah: The most scenic place on Earth
From: Inanna Seastar
To: Antony Landsman Msg #145, 25-Jan-89
Subject: Re: Lilith
The only Lilith likely to be found in _my_ family huluppu-tree is
Lilith Velkor... :-)
On a more sirius note (even though I don't use Sirius any more; I use
Gnome), there is no question that Inanna is a third- or later-generation
goddess in the Sumerian pantheon. I rather suspect that the image of
Inanna as THE Goddess before whom all other deities at least swear a little
fealty comes from Uruk. Inanna was the matron goddess of Uruk, and most of
our legends and such concerning her were dug up (literally) in Uruk. The
myth of the huluppu-tree shows a young Inanna, in a young Uruk, trying to
get help from other deities of other, older cities to get rid of a problem
that was too big for her to handle at the time. The problem is solved by
Gilgamesh, King of Uruk, rather than by any foreigner. Likewise, the tale
of Inanna & Enki & the _me's_ (civic virtues), shows a young goddess of a
young city who has managed to elevate her city into the first rank. In
winning the _me's_ from Enki, Inanna adds to them by the time she gets her
virtuous cargo back to Uruk. I do not recall whether Lilith was formally
mentioned as being in Inanna's lineage, though.
Blessed Bheer--drinking Enki under the table--
--- Gnome v1.30
* Origin: The Lizard King--Inanna Seastar's Place (1:104/45.5)
ZS> "As for the lovemaking of the daughters of Lillith,
sounds ZS> kinda fun. (Maybe we should ask David Rice about
Er, were you interested in some phone numbers? It's
extreamly hard work to love a daughter of Lilith, but the
rewards are undeniably worth it.
I've started an extended study on strong Lilith women vs.
the domesticated Eve ones. So far, with only about 18
tallies in (painstakingly and personaly researched with
great, er, debauch, with plans on adding many hundreds of
more into the study), the following has been observed:
Most American men give out long before the Lilithian woman
(or any other) will. Lilith will say "Excuse me, kind sir,"
(as she can't remember his name at the moment). "You're not
finished, are you?!" and Eve will say "Gee, that was great!"
and reach for the batteries and flee into the bathroom for
Lesbians tend to be strongly Lilithian. This may be because
"the only thing men are good FOR they aren't good AT," as
the true and valid saying goes. Also, most if not all men
are little cry babies, and Lilith can't stand for that
Conversly, Eve women always knew men make horrible lovers,
but resign themselves to 4 minutes of sex twice a week, when
they'd rather have 16 hours of sex every day. This is why,
perhaps, Eveian women make such good Catholics.
If your typical male pig says, rightly, that a woman's place
is in the bed, Lilith will say "Eat shit and die!" and Eve
will say "Yes, dear," and hate herself.
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